This is a post by Just an Egyptian on the above. The post is in Arabic (mostly Egyptian colloquial) so apologies to all non-Arabic speakers/readers.
I love what he has to say.
To me, this is a post about the myth of accepting those of a different faith in Egypt and how the word moderate is now used by anyone who is not a card-carrying member of a religion-based organization or group.
Found an entry over here which discusses it.
I’ll leave it to you to form your own opinion, but (since they have comment moderation enabled), I will share my very short comment on their post:
“Maybe I’m not getting it… but I’d like to see pictures of Jesus and Moses done in a similar, quite juvenile in my opinion manner, and then I’ll be convinced that this is actually about free speech and not, as it seems to me, confusing free speech with Islamo-phobia.”
The video there was also annoying. Not that I support censorship, I don’t. I think the cartoons should be published… but since, in my experience, most of the blogs and people who supported things like Draw Mohammed Day were conservative right-wing christians or die-hard Islamo-phobes, the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.
I am also proposing an annual lambast Israel for stealing the Palestinians’ land Day and Deny the Holocaust Day. I mean, isn’t Free Speech the whole point, no matter how ridiculous what you say might or might not be?
We need these things then, to get it out of our system, until everyone gets tired of the whole thing and then some of us will just stop being this childish.
There are times when people use the exact wrong words to express themselves. An example of this is this post by Egyptian-Australian blogger Neferteeti.
So the Egyptian government, or administrative court according to an article she cited in her post, passed another decision which reflects the general religious intolerance of the government towards non-Muslims. Why then would Neferteeti blame Islam, as a religion, for this?
She says:
Ever considered becoming a Muslim? Think carefully! Because it’s a strictly one way road… moreover, if you live in Egypt, the blessed government and even the juidiciary system will enforce this rule
And
and tell me, why is Islam so scared to let people choose? Why is the governemnt so determined to keep religion in the forefront of the average Egyptian’s life?
It is a well known fact that religious scholars of all religions, including both the Christianity and Judaism, have differed over a variety of topics and issues ever since all these religions sprang into being. Christians frequently tell me that the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Christianity is a religion of peace.
I will choose not to question that last statement, BUT do you mean to tell me that the Crusades were written somewhere in Christianity? Or that the Catholic Pope and other rulers and leaders at the time took the decision to carry out expeditions in the name of The Lord? If one was to blame anyone, would it be them or Christianity?
Do we blame Christianity, or the Aryan race, for Hitler’s mass murder of European Jews? Or do we blame one man, Hitler himself, for the actions taken by members of the Nazi party and the army of the Third Reich?
I should think the answers to the question would be: The men themselves (and not Christianity) as well as Hitler (and not Christianity nor the Aryan race).
It does not require a religious scholar nor a person of astounding knowledge to realize that the application of the different supposed rules of different religions are carried out differently from region to region and country to country. Compare Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Morrocco, Turkey and Egypt, if you need facts.
If you know all this, and I will suppose that you must have missed this in your anger over the decision, why do you blame the religion? Blame the government. Blame the administrative court judges. Blame Gomaa. But how could you blame a faith and a belief?
This is particularly true when the article Neferteeti cited has this particular bit:
“As a Muslim, I say that there is no limit to the freedom of religion and, without it, heaven and hell would be … meaningless as the Koran assures the individual freedom of belief and disbelief [and] in return [people] are responsible for their choice,” Mohammed Munir Mogahed, a founding member of Egyptians Against Religious Segregation, said recently in the Egyptian daily, Al Masry Al Youm.
The man, who stands with you in your anger and objections, makes the situation clear enough. If you disagree with this, what’s up with including this article in your post and asking your readers to check it out for more information?
I’ve learnt that the path to religious tolerance lies in carefully thinking through all the things we hear and understanding how those different from us, in matters of faith or belief, think. The Egyptian government, may it burn, does not seem to be doing this.
Why is it that some of us, rightful in our objections, are emulating their modus operandi?
I had hoped that all my previous posts were enough for those that do not know me to realize that I am quite secular in my social and political views. Having said that, let me make it clear that having a secular view point does not mean you don’t care about religion or, at least, theology and/or the idea of religion.
But, apparently, some people think that’s true. It is amazing how, in e-mail correspondance with someone I do not know personally, I was addressed in a radically different fashion when I pointed out that I consider myself an Agnostic.. and I do consider myself an Agnostic. It just pissed me off that were I not an Agnostic (as was thought by the other party) then whatever I say, as someone who is officially considered a Muslim, is just… useless nonsense.
The reason I write this post, though, is that I came across an interesting website. Now, again, I have nothing against anyone attempting to let their plight be known to the world through the internet. I do have problems with something that looks like mere propaganda and totally un-substantiated by fact. The sad thing would be if these claims were supported by facts. Why on earth do they not show them, in some form or another, these facts?! I’ve had Christian friends (and Muslim friends as well, but I suppose that they wouldn’t pass the Officially Reliable Source Inspection) that specifically say that most of these incidents are Christian girls who fall in love with Muslim men and run away.
They also say that sometimes the man doesn’t love them, or wants to steal their jewellery and sell the different rings/necklaces/bracelets for money or just wants to have sex with a good looking chick or whatever. But, that these men don’t force the girls to run away in any manner different from that which a lover (or someone who makes the other believe they love them) would use. Their (my friends’) point is, they don’t believe they’re really kidnappings.
Now, again, I’m not saying that no one gets kidnapped… not at all! I don’t know who or when or how many people get kidnapped. It just gets pathetic that even those times that girls say they weren’t kidnapped, I hear claims from Christian Blogs and websites that they were “drugged” or “not fully aware”. What? Were they drugged with super-coke? Did they remain in their drugged state forever? So let’s say they were drugged… why not interview them after the drug’s effects wear off. It’s just amazing how these girls that say they weren’t kidnapped ALWAYS manage to make it into the news whilst in a drugged state.
It’s also quite amusing to think that the kidnappers are adept at obtaining and using the type of drugs that put the girls in a delirious state for days.
Finally, I am not saying that there aren’t Muslims who attempt to convert Christians to Islam (and/or vice-versa) in Egypt. I just want substantiated stories. Not 3-4 vidoes which are apparently irrefutable proof that this is a phenomenon as opposed to isolated incidents. Damn! Most of the videos aren’t even videos of the girls. They’re either telling us that this happened or they interview Egyptian Christians who describe how the girl in question failed to show up somewhere after leaving or going somewhere. I suppose that if she runs away, she’ll come back home for her dinner and her bed then up and run-away in the morning again, won’t she? These videos say nothing concrete and can be interpreted in any way that anyone wishes. They sure aren’t concrete proof. Well, unless you’re the sort of person that just needs to hear someone to tell you that “something” occurred for you to believe it.
I’ve heard it being said that the only reason families believe their girls have been kidnapped is because they cannot conceive of the idea that their girl ran away with the male in question. Not only that… but because of Egyptian culture… it would be quite dis-honorable and shameful for the family. I’ve also heard that the families say their girl was forced to convert to give her a chance to use the same argument with the Church so that she could claim that being forced to convert (for probably a completely silly reason) means that she shouldn’t be excommunicated. Personally, I can imagine this happening in a variety of issues in Egypt that have nothing to do with Religion.
I have to say though that I don’t know how the Coptic Orthodox Church in Egypt, and other Churches here, treat Christians who willingly convert to Islam and them want to return to christianity. Personally, I’d take him back; They were probably thinking about the whole thing.
Honestly though? People should take this religion thing with a grain of salt. If only they’d confine their feelings towards whatever supranatural entity they believe in to the private domain (and by this I mean anyone who follows any religion/way of life) we’d all be better off. You can leave”Missionary Notes” on bulletin boards and those interested can pick ‘em up, read about your religion and then choose if they think it works for them or not.
Oh and one last thing, and this goes to both sides: If you’re going to quote scripture (Qur’an or Bible) then at least get your god-damned meanings right and stop this half-assed out-of-context bullshit that infuriates the hell out of anyone that understands the language and doesn’t even follow the faith!!!
Here’s hoping people grow up. Academically as well as psychologically/emotionally.
My place of employment, of the past month, is definitely much more entertaining and interesting than my previous job experience.
These days, seeing that my boss is on vacation, I’ve been burdened by quite a large volume of work. This usually translates into my having to stay extra hours (and sometimes weekends), to ensure that I don’t lag behind in my responsibilities. This has, obviously, meant increased interaction with the only other person who remains after regular working hours – the security guy.
There are in fact three security guards at my place of employemnt. They work in shifts; two alternating the morning and afternoon shifts and the remaining guard only working nights. Because of this increased interaction, I have managed to be-friend all three… at various levels of “friendship” (I’ve only known/seen them for a month). My favourite one is Assem. Guessing from his stories, I would say he’s in his mid-forties.
He’s my favourite because he used to be a reserve officer in the Egyptian Armed Forces. Not only that, he used to be an officer of the Air Defense Forces (El-defaa El-gawee). My years-old hobby of collecting books and information on weapons, of all sorts, automatically gave us both a common topic that we can both discuss.
Over the days (weeks now) that I’ve remained after working hours, our conversations expanded to discuss Egyptian Politics, the War in Lebanon, Corruption, Land Reclamation (His bachelor’s Degree was in Agriculture), Electronics & Circuits (His long-time money-on-the-table job, even before graduating from University) as well as your regular office gossip (ashamedly enough).
Just a half-hour before this post was written, I went to the office kitchen to make myself a cup of tea, and found him there sipping on his own tea. He offered me a ciggarette and I accepted and sat down for a smoke with my tea (we closed the kitchen door and turned on this huge fan-thing they have in there).
He started talking, and a few words into his sentence I realized that the topic of the day would be corruption. So we talked corruption. We discussed Ayman Nou, Hussam abo el Fotouh and the Judges issue. This didn’t last for 5 minutes before the topic moved to Weapons of Mass Destruction.
He said that Israel has Nuclear weapons, to which I replied with “Egypt has Chemical & Biological weapons… or so I hear”. He shook his head.
Nope.
He said that was the reasons Abo Ghazala was removed from office. He realized that his President & Commander-in-Chief was a *expletive that I can’t translate at this point* and because he was a pure military man, he realized that Egypt would not be safe from the Israelis. Assem claimed that he had the Egyptian Military manufacturing Mustard Gas in what seemed to be an aerosol producing factory at Alexandria.
So basically there was no “deterrent” against Israel’s possible use of Nuclear weapons against the Egyptian Armed Forces. He then moved on to conventional weapons by mentioning that the Merkava, Israel’s primary Main Battle Tank (MBT), was fitted to fire missiles. (This has not been verified). Allow me to digress here for a second to explain the significance of this statement. Tanks usually carry various types of shells; Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot (not sure if I’ve forgotten anything there) [I like its generic name: The Long Rod Penetrator. Is it because I'm male? Probably.], High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT), High Explosive Anti-Personnel (HEAP) would be the main ones. The M-1A1, which Egypt has the largest amount of, outside of the United States, uses these as primary armament.
The M-1A1, according to a source that I’d read from before but cannot remember, has a maximum firing-range of four kilometers. Missiles can have, easily, three to four times that range. Thus the M-1′s advantage (and four kilometers is an advantage) is invalidated. Keep in mind that the largest amount of Israeli tanks that fell, both in 1973 and in the War in Lebanon, were because of either Rocket-Propelled Grenades (RPGs), mines or Anti-tank guided missiles (like the Sagger that Egypt used in 1973).
So basically, the security guy was saying that we wouldn’t be able to stand up against them… or so I thought. I forgot to mention that earlier in the conversation he’d specifically said that Arab rulers keep using the Israel/America cards to scare their people [into submission].
The next 10 minutes was about the 1973 & 1967 wars, prisoners-of-war and things of that nature. Nothing of relevance was mentioned.
I then asked him if he’s saying that we’re bound to lose if we enter any war and, more to the point, if the Arab rulers are then correct with their claims.
He replied by saying, “la, enta fehemtenee ghalat. Dana kont ba’ool 7aga tanya khales. El yahood doal 3omrohom ma momken ye7arbook waghan le wagh. Dayman lazem yestekhabo warra 7aga. Dee maktooba fel Qur’an *Rough Qur’an quote by him*. Ya3nee momken ne3tebr khat Bar-Lev keda…”
*Rough Translation goes as follows:” No, you misunderstood me. I was actually saying something totally different. (These) Jews would never fight you face to face. They always have to hide behind something. It is written in the Qur’an *Rough Qur’an quote by him*. So, we can think of the Bar-Lev line as falling under that category…”
Though we continued talking, all I was thinking was: Why did you have to bring Jews & The Qur’an into this?! Why did you have to quote the Qur’an at me?
Before any of this post’s readers come to any hasty conclusions, let me clarify that Assem doesn’t seem like a religious person. He smokes, swears (albeit very very very lightly) and I haven’t seen him pray in the time I’ve known him.
Still, he keeps saying Muslims, Jews, Qur’an quite a number of times. It’s not as if I’m an atheist. I just like to keep god out of it. I fancy myself an agnostic but, still, I suppose its the idea that one doesn’t have complete control over one’s life that doesn’t sit well with me. Either way, I get quite irritated when people say that because I generally feel like it’s an excuse for failure (though in this case, Assem wasn’t making excuses. He specifically said it was because they make good weapons and good fortifications and used the Vickers Gun – which made me chuckle until this website informed me that Israel did, in fact, have Vickers guns in 1973.)
Either way, I just wanted to say that people would be able to think of more open-ended possiblities and solutions (in addition to lessening my discomfort) if they were to stop saying: The Jews, The Qur’an & The Prophet. Just say: Those fucking Israelis.
Works out mighty fine that way.
